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+--- Thread: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? (/showthread.php?tid=2556)
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Cricket - 09-25-2016
(09-25-2016, 01:19 PM)Themilkman Wrote: I have an acquaintance who is a retired Dr. and he has claimed his theory being good docs know how addictive they can be, and how tolerance works. At some point they feel a pressure to either cut someone off at a certain mg. They know this will not provide the relief it once did but get nervous past a certain amount. All while knowing how tolerance works? This would create a pattern of people seeking elsewhere if true.
I believe this is true. I'm sure many of us are under prescribed because dr.'s are scared to death to give as much as they know a patient needs to really be effective. I know because my dr. has cut what he use to prescribe in half. Been on this med for decades, so naturally less is not gonna help much. That's the reason many of us are forced to make up for the cutbacks by ordering what we need to help get us back to the level that actually works. Tolerance doesn't matter anymore. Dr.'s that will still prescribe are gonna give you as little as they can get away with so that it doesn't perk up the ears of the DEA.
Because of some people using these meds for recreation, it's caused those of us that need them just to be able to function, suffer so much more than is fair. What else do they expect us to do? I'm sure that if any of our "leaders" making these laws are in pain or whatever, they would have no problem getting as much of whatever they want. They're not gonna suffer. That's for us little people to do. Gotta luv the system.
Cricket
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Orange rabbit - 09-25-2016
Boy Cricket I couldn't agree more with you. You hit it on the nose ?
OR
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Cricket - 09-25-2016
(09-25-2016, 04:48 PM)Orange rabbit Wrote: Boy Cricket I couldn't agree more with you. You hit it on the nose ?
OR
Thanks OR. It's not fair to those of us that play (or try to) by the rules. I believe that if you have legit, documented medical need, it's not fair to punish everyone for the mistakes of a few.
What ya gonna do? We're slaves to their STUPID policies.
Cricket
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Spanky - 09-26-2016
(09-25-2016, 10:03 PM)Cricket Wrote:(09-25-2016, 04:48 PM)Orange rabbit Wrote: Boy Cricket I couldn't agree more with you. You hit it on the nose ?
OR
Thanks OR. It's not fair to those of us that play (or try to) by the rules. I believe that if you have legit, documented medical need, it's not fair to punish everyone for the mistakes of a few.
What ya gonna do? We're slaves to their STUPID policies.
Cricket
Hi Crick and OR,
Wish there was a stupid policy. It's just a loose and shifting snare of Protestant ethics--and I mean that in the broadest sense as in "no pain, no gain"--self-serving politics, and the sheepish bleating of the medical practitioners. I sometimes remind folks of the case a few years ago of a half-promising cancer treatment aimed at generally agreed terminal cancer patients. This was only a few years ago and made the news because the terminal filed suit to try the still-not FDA approved drug. And they were denied.
What I enjoy is the "pain level" question usually given in the pre exam by the Doc.
"If you were to rate your pain level now between one and ten, one being the lowest and 10 really hurting, where would you place it?"
"Relative to what?"
"What?"
"Exactly"
A compound fracture? An impacted molar? Poke in the eye with sharp stick? Bad headache?
"Oh, and whatever it is now it was about twice as much about 3am this morning."
Gotta watch those numbers anyway. Constant 8-10 is thrown out as drug seeking or the dreaded "tolerance" OR mentions. Too low and take two aspirin. So, yeah Bug, I wish it were a stupid policy. maybe it could be worked on.
Spankster
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Tbaronfl - 09-26-2016
I'm very conservative politically, have been for years. But lately have been changing my views on the so called "war on drugs". My views have been changing to more of a Libertarian slant - lets stop making everything illegal, PK's, Anxiety, sleep meds, MJ etc. All we accomplish with making it difficult or impossible for people to get what they want or need and a WOD is creating an entire criminal element where one need not exist at all. I'm not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but, someone has to ask - what the heck is going on? Why is this such a big deal? I think there's more at play here than meets the eye. Politicians protecting their jobs by creating this boogey man WOD. Pharma protecting their businesses. etc...
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Spanky - 09-26-2016
(09-26-2016, 12:04 PM)FirePlaces Wrote: Oh, oh, I know the answer to the pain level question!
It's a six. And the meds should reduce it to a 2 or 3. For some reason we are not supposed to be pain free.
Ha Fire,
Thank you Arnold Horshack. That's a pretty good answer.
Spank
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Themilkman - 09-27-2016
(09-25-2016, 04:28 PM)Cricket Wrote:(09-25-2016, 01:19 PM)Themilkman Wrote: I have an acquaintance who is a retired Dr. and he has claimed his theory being good docs know how addictive they can be, and how tolerance works. At some point they feel a pressure to either cut someone off at a certain mg. They know this will not provide the relief it once did but get nervous past a certain amount. All while knowing how tolerance works? This would create a pattern of people seeking elsewhere if true.
I believe this is true. I'm sure many of us are under prescribed because dr.'s are scared to death to give as much as they know a patient needs to really be effective. I know because my dr. has cut what he use to prescribe in half. Been on this med for decades, so naturally less is not gonna help much. That's the reason many of us are forced to make up for the cutbacks by ordering what we need to help get us back to the level that actually works. Tolerance doesn't matter anymore. Dr.'s that will still prescribe are gonna give you as little as they can get away with so that it doesn't perk up the ears of the DEA.
Because of some people using these meds for recreation, it's caused those of us that need them just to be able to function, suffer so much more than is fair. What else do they expect us to do? I'm sure that if any of our "leaders" making these laws are in pain or whatever, they would have no problem getting as much of whatever they want. They're not gonna suffer. That's for us little people to do. Gotta luv the system.
Cricket
I hope this is ok to say, but I was cut off my pain medication 13 or so years ago in middle school due to the doctors fear. He thought my shoulder issue would be life long, and decided one visit to go from 10 mg oxycodone 2/3x a day to nothing. I know that is not a ton but I had been on it for about a year and a half, and did not understand tolerance or addiction. Naturally I found my own source and was fine, but did go up and up in dose. My shoulder got better after a few years of physical therapy but I kept using. Eventually this all led to non pharmaceutical pain relief of the same nature(even though my shoulder was fine). I spent a few years on the stuff while trying to quit now and then. Finally I found a Suboxone Doctor and have been on it for 9 years. Have tried to tapper and quit but have had no luck yet. I am glad the suboxone saved me and what not, but resent the fact that it is just as hard to get off of. At least big pharma/government has been getting my money again though.....I feel that even though everyone makes their own choices this could have been all avoided with a bit of education.
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Cricket - 09-27-2016
(09-27-2016, 10:12 AM)Themilkman Wrote:(09-25-2016, 04:28 PM)Cricket Wrote:(09-25-2016, 01:19 PM)Themilkman Wrote: I have an acquaintance who is a retired Dr. and he has claimed his theory being good docs know how addictive they can be, and how tolerance works. At some point they feel a pressure to either cut someone off at a certain mg. They know this will not provide the relief it once did but get nervous past a certain amount. All while knowing how tolerance works? This would create a pattern of people seeking elsewhere if true.
I believe this is true. I'm sure many of us are under prescribed because dr.'s are scared to death to give as much as they know a patient needs to really be effective. I know because my dr. has cut what he use to prescribe in half. Been on this med for decades, so naturally less is not gonna help much. That's the reason many of us are forced to make up for the cutbacks by ordering what we need to help get us back to the level that actually works. Tolerance doesn't matter anymore. Dr.'s that will still prescribe are gonna give you as little as they can get away with so that it doesn't perk up the ears of the DEA.
Because of some people using these meds for recreation, it's caused those of us that need them just to be able to function, suffer so much more than is fair. What else do they expect us to do? I'm sure that if any of our "leaders" making these laws are in pain or whatever, they would have no problem getting as much of whatever they want. They're not gonna suffer. That's for us little people to do. Gotta luv the system.
Cricket
I hope this is ok to say, but I was cut off my pain medication 13 or so years ago in middle school due to the doctors fear. He thought my shoulder issue would be life long, and decided one visit to go from 10 mg oxycodone 2/3x a day to nothing. I know that is not a ton but I had been on it for about a year and a half, and did not understand tolerance or addiction. Naturally I found my own source and was fine, but did go up and up in dose. My shoulder got better after a few years of physical therapy but I kept using. Eventually this all led to non pharmaceutical pain relief of the same nature(even though my shoulder was fine). I spent a few years on the stuff while trying to quit now and then. Finally I found a Suboxone Doctor and have been on it for 9 years. Have tried to tapper and quit but have had no luck yet. I am glad the suboxone saved me and what not, but resent the fact that it is just as hard to get off of. At least big pharma/government has been getting my money again though.....I feel that even though everyone makes their own choices this could have been all avoided with a bit of education.
The thing I don't get is why does a dr. cut people off from an addictive drug and put people on a different addictive drug. What sense does that make? None as I see it.
If they are gonna give you something else that's addictive, why not just leave you on what you were taking that helps more. It's just stupid. It's a fu*ked up world we live in and nothing makes sense anymore. Seems they just want to make us suffer more.
Cutting you off cold turkey like that could be very dangerous. Are the dr.'s today tryin' to help us or kill us?
Makes no sense at all.
Cricket
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Tbaronfl - 09-28-2016
This is what happens when public policy is made by those who no nothing about the issue except what they're told by others who have an agenda - Pharma or even the well intended but ignorant. It gets between you and your doctor. Lets face it, big govt loves to stick its nose where it doesnt belong. Why? because it gives them more to do, more to control, more to justify their interference. WHich leads only to one thing - more control, cause ultimately that's what they need to justify their power. A Vicious cycle. The Nanny State.
RE: Why are PK's so difficult to find on IOP's and DNM's? - Themilkman - 10-04-2016
(09-27-2016, 12:50 PM)FirePlaces Wrote: 30 mg a day is a lot Milkman IMO, specially for a child in middle school. By middle school do you mean 6th, 7th, or 8th grades?
Did your parents have a position on the meds or just trusted the doc?
I find it so irresponsible that your doc back then did not taper you off. Of course you would find another source. No one wants to go through WDs.
I SO agree on the education about these meds being critical.
Glad your shoulder is finally ok. Sorry you are kind of stuck on subs but good for you that you didn't let these meds ruin your life.
I was in 7th when prescribed and was taken off the summer going into 9th I believe. My memory gets a little fuzzy when trying to gauge time. My parents at the time I feel trusted this Dr. because he was a family friend, and I think he thought that he was doing me a favor cutting me off at the time. I am sure they knew about the addictive properties and what not, but thought "not my kid". My parents have harbored a lot of guilt over it even though I have told them they couldn't have known. They have helped me through the aftermath every step of the way, including kicking me out as to not enable when I got bad with my use. They were the first to take me to the Suboxone Dr. when I was ready to face the issue though. I do feel that the tone has changed in society with people being more aware. If this would have happened today I am guessing they would have kept an eye on the whole medicating process. Everything is hindsight 20/20 though. Thanks for the reply! This can be a touchy issue as people really need these meds, but we all know the mess they can create handled with little education.
(09-28-2016, 04:26 PM)Tbaronfl Wrote: This is what happens when public policy is made by those who no nothing about the issue except what they're told by others who have an agenda - Pharma or even the well intended but ignorant. It gets between you and your doctor. Lets face it, big govt loves to stick its nose where it doesnt belong. Why? because it gives them more to do, more to control, more to justify their interference. WHich leads only to one thing - more control, cause ultimately that's what they need to justify their power. A Vicious cycle. The Nanny State.
Its funny you mention this as I was trying to get off suboxone with the help of an herb that's been legal for years. I knew people that treated their chronic pain with it, as well as others who it helped get off opiates by relieving some of the physical withdrawals. Now big gov has scheduled it because it is of no value to them. Not one overdose recorded as well. I cant say the same for what the doctors have given me throughout the years. I have come to the conclusion that most of our "leaders" are sociopaths. It seems to me that you need to have little empathy to make it through the years as a higher level career politician.