pregabalin (Lyrica)

[Pliko]

The media always like to blow things out of proportion and recently they have latched onto prelagabin talking about how many people get addicted to it and abuse it. In fact the government are going the be making it class c soon because of the deaths associated with it, even though the vast majority of these are where people have mixed it with many other prescription drugs and alcohol (probably all in excessive amounts). I am sure that the government have been pushed by the media storm about this recently, last year nobody knew anything about prelagabin or cared about it's classification. 

I wonder how addictive prelagabin actually is? I know it is likely mentally addictive, anything can be, but does it have any physical addictivity? I know in the usually prescribed amounts it is probably not an issue either way, but if someone was prescribed large dosages for an extended period? Could they suffer anything other than potential damage to the kidneys?

[invisiblejungle]

I agree that the media always blows things out of proportion, but I do have concerns regarding the gabapentinoids being over-prescribed (pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut). I have experience with all 3 of these compounds, and I can definitely say that there is potential for physical addiction. They reduce glutamate and increase GABA by blocking voltage-gated calcium channels, and anything GABAergic can cause physical ddiction.

For some people, withdrawal from the gabapentinoids can be worse than withdrawal from benzos.

[Sunglassesron]

Everyone seems to be going mad for this at the moment I've seen it labelled as the "new" valium does anyone have any experience of it

[Charon]

http://ioplist.org/showthread.php?tid=39...3#pid87653

Is this the same med? If so, we can merge threads.

[invisiblejungle]

http://ioplist.org/showthread.php?tid=39...3#pid87653

Is this the same med?  If so, we can merge threads.

Yes, these are the same. The correct spelling is pregabalin (Lyrica).

[Pliko]

I agree that the media always blows things out of proportion, but I do have concerns regarding the gabapentinoids being over-prescribed (pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut). I have experience with all 3 of these compounds, and I can definitely say that there is potential for physical addiction. They reduce glutamate and increase GABA by blocking voltage-gated calcium channels, and anything GABAergic can cause physical ddiction.

For some people, withdrawal from the gabapentinoids can be worse than withdrawal from benzos.

I guess GABA it'self fall under the same categories? Also as you have experience alll theses, how do they compare to each other?

I know pregabalin is the strongest mg per mg. I remember dosages for GABA it'self can rage from 750mg all the way to 10g for (definetly off label) treatment for anxiety.  Certainly I remember in the past gradually dosing 10g gaba for social anxiety and it did work though that amount can not be good for the kidneys and I did not use it more than abouit once or twice but one dosage would provide anxiolytic effects for up to 48 hours. Either way having a small amount of benzos achieve better effects with less strain on the body.

Basically I was asking if any of these show physical symptoms of addiction. I realise from personal experience from being prescribed benzos for anxiety that comming off them can be difficult but found it is more mental anguish than the sweats, flu like symptoms and physical discomfort propertedly experienced when coming off even a short but strong. prescription of PKs.  

I do find it is ironic that they are classing prelagabin  Class C whilst GABA and phenibut are stil freely sold as supplements despite the Psycoactive substance bill which passed last year effectively banning anything which has a stimulant or depressive CNS effect. 

Personally I have tried all but at varying stages of my life when I was experiencing different mental afflictions. Phenibut and GABA are surprislingly effective for supplements, gabapentin was less anxiolytic for me than pregabalin which provides good anxiolytic effects without the mental cloud often assiciated with benzos. Also prelagabin gives the most amazing sleep so I find it much more preferable than Z drugs for insomnia. The trouble is in this country the policy is to prescribe anti-depressants before anything else, which while definitely useful in some cases, I prefer to stay away from as my affliction severity vary from week to week. Some days I can be calm and have a good sleep whilst other I suffer panic attacks, gneralised anxiety disorder and significant insomnia. I therefore prefer short acting medicines which can be taken when needed. 

Apologies for my spelling, I have a minor form of dyslexia which isn't helped by the ineffective spell check on this site.

[invisiblejungle]

I agree that the media always blows things out of proportion, but I do have concerns regarding the gabapentinoids being over-prescribed (pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut). I have experience with all 3 of these compounds, and I can definitely say that there is potential for physical addiction. They reduce glutamate and increase GABA by blocking voltage-gated calcium channels, and anything GABAergic can cause physical ddiction.

For some people, withdrawal from the gabapentinoids can be worse than withdrawal from benzos.

I guess GABA it'self fall under the same categories? Also as you have experience alll theses, how do they compare to each other?

I know pregabalin is the strongest mg per mg. I remember dosages for GABA it'self can rage from 750mg all the way to 10g for (definetly off label) treatment for anxiety.  Certainly I remember in the past gradually dosing 10g gaba for social anxiety and it did work though that amount can not be good for the kidneys and I did not use it more than abouit once or twice but one dosage would provide anxiolytic effects for up to 48 hours. Either way having a small amount of benzos achieve better effects with less strain on the body.

Basically I was asking if any of these show physical symptoms of addiction. I realise from personal experience from being prescribed benzos for anxiety that comming off them can be difficult but found it is more mental anguish than the sweats, flu like symptoms and physical discomfort propertedly experienced when coming off even a short but strong. prescription of PKs.  

I do find it is ironic that they are classing prelagabin  Class C whilst GABA and phenibut are stil freely sold as supplements despite the Psycoactive substance bill which passed last year effectively banning anything which has a stimulant or depressive CNS effect. 

Personally I have tried all but at varying stages of my life when I was experiencing different mental afflictions. Phenibut and GABA are surprislingly effective for supplements, gabapentin was less anxiolytic for me than pregabalin which provides good anxiolytic effects without the mental cloud often assiciated with benzos. Also prelagabin gives the most amazing sleep so I find it much more preferable than Z drugs for insomnia. The trouble is in this country the policy is to prescribe anti-depressants before anything else, which while definitely useful in some cases, I prefer to stay away from as my affliction severity vary from week to week. Some days I can be calm and have a good sleep whilst other I suffer panic attacks, gneralised anxiety disorder and significant insomnia. I therefore prefer short acting medicines which can be taken when needed. 

Apologies for my spelling, I have a minor form of dyslexia which isn't helped by the ineffective spell check on this site.

You might be the first person I've talked to who had actual benefits from plain GABA, since it's not supposed to pass the brain-blood barrier. But then again, you took 10 grams. The most I ever tried was 5 grams but still felt nothing.

Pregabalin and gabapentin are sister-drugs, so they do feel very similar. Pregabalin feels about 4x stronger for me (300 mg Lyrica feels like 1200 mg Neurontin). I never took either one daily, but for a few years, I took them once in awhile (2 times per month at most). At first, they had significant anxiolytic effects and helped with sleep, but gradually their effects changed to the point where they were more like stimulants and just made me feel like crap. I haven't taken either one in awhile now.

I'm assuming you're in the UK, due to your reference to Class C. Here in the US, Lyrica is Schedule 5, whereas Neurontin is non-controlled. I've always found that strange because they're so similar. Phenibut seems to have gone below the radar, since it's a Russian-invented pharmaceutical, but I do think it should be controlled in some way. I had horrible withdrawals after taking phenibut for only a week.

But in regards to your main question about physical addiction, I would argue that yes, the gabapentoids can be physically addictive. Opiate withdrawal can be extremely uncomfortable, but withdrawal from GABAergics (benzos, barbiturates, alcohol) can cause death. Since the body reduces GABA production when taking these meds, stopping them too soon can result in extremely high glutamate signalling which can cause seizures and death.

If Lyrica or Neurontin help you, I certainly don't want to discourage you from taking it. But I do think that as doctors prescribe them for more and more conditions, the issues related to them will become more evident. After all, heroin wasn't supposed to be addictive. Barbiturates weren't supposed to be addictive. Benzos weren't supposed to be addictive. Etc.

[barq2]

The "new valium" label is interesting - I have mixed feelings.

I'm prescribed gabapentin, but have also had pregabalin. There is a relaxing effect that I suppose is similar to diazepam. But what I've noticed is the way many doctors consider these gabagenics drugs you can withdraw from in a matter of weeks (i.e. cut dose in half, cut to quarter, and then stop). So it follows diaz in the sense most docs are under estimating the addictive qualities.

In the UK the gabagenics are officially NHS approved for anxiety conditions. That's new.

I would bet you money that in ten years the withdrawal will be seen as a much bigger deal.

[Pliko]

Yes I did get noticeable anxiolytic effects from GABA at 10g, not something I would recommend for day to day use but it is useful if you are in a pinch. Probably the same anti anxiety effects as 10-30mg diazepam (depending on tolerance) but lasting much longer. Perhaps there are GABA receptors in the gut- akin to loperamide which is actually a very strong opiate (a bit less potent than fentanyl) but the molecule is too big to pass the BBB. There are however opiate receptors in the gut which is why it is marketed as an effective treatment for diarrhea. Maybe GABA is also absorbed in the gut?

Thanks for answering my questions about gabapentanoid addiction. The type of anxiety I suffer from does not require consistent daily use so I think occasional use of pregabalin should probably be ok. I find the GPs in this country always seem to want to prescribe antidepressants before anything else, I know they can help many people but since I only take anxiolytics occasionally when required, which is less and less these days (touch wood), I shall discuss the options of gabapentoids with my GP. Another problem in the UK I find is that even if you show some knowledge of potential medicine it can be marked as drug seeking behaviour. I can understand it in the case of some medicines but they should give us credit for doing a bit of research ourselves, before taking any medicine I make sure to familiarise myself with all effects, interactions etc. Unfortunately many people don't pay much mind what they put in their bodies.

Barq- I am sure in 10 years there will be another set of medicines to replace the gabapentoids but I too hope that the dangers are more well publicised. Alas the pharmacutical companies will always play down the dangers- just the like the famous oxycontin which was originally marketed as an addiction free solution for morphine. I think better public understanding is key, most people trust their doctors complicity which is to be expected but informing the public about the dangers and benefits of all drugs would do the public health service a great benefit.

[TeknoFunk]

From my own research "not taking it", but I've done in depth personal research on GABA and drugs like pregabalin. Crosses the blood brain barrier and is very similar to sodium oxybate as in what it does to the brain in some respects. I would think, since it has a stimulating effect and a non-stimulating effect all in one, it depends on the dosage to bring out which characteristics in a person. Long term use of lyrica and the like would most definitely have w/d's as your gaba receptors would be in trouble once you stopped. The w/d would be bad, depending on dose. I would say it's probably one of the most effective and has potential for abuse, so be careful out there.