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Best benzo for opiate w/d?
#11
I know a list of medications to Kick H. and Benzo's are only a small part of that equation. I know first hand.. Kpins are helpful, Val's are helpful as well. Those two alone are the only benzos I'd recommend. Also clonidine is EXTREMELY helpful and helped me lower my does of Subutex and of course H. I have an extensive personal history combating Opiate addiction.. Can your First see a doctor? If not I can help and give the exact list of medications. Please let me know as I know the pure HELL that goes along with coming off of H.

PM me if you're actually serious about helping your pal come down easy. I offer my time and advice out of the kindness of my heart, because when I was suffering, I had few guys talk to me personally... I can PROMISE you a significant change and chance of help.. I give you my word and my oath to give you the most solid advice possible.
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#12
Batgirl

Valium is great.
but i really find that doing a pharmy coctail is best if your not trying to do a rapid bup3 tapper.
These mixtures include clonidine (the most helpful i feel) valium and or ativan and ambien and for sleep.

Gaba also can help with the restless legs at night.

Larry
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#13
Gabapentin erases all opiate withdrawal symptoms from what I've seen, and at 1.2g+ it completely eliminates restless legs
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#14
Ive used gabapentin, many people swear by it, but for me it only helped a little. I think the med I was coming off of was a bit stronger than most so perhaps that could be a factor. In my 15+ years on various forums and groups I have seen too many reports of people stating it helped them greatly coming off mild opi8s to dismiss it tho.
Personally I've had better success with other non- benzo meds such as pregaba Lin and baclofen. Just my experience of course,
Den
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#15
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!
How long does all this  take - lets suppose you didn't go wild on the increase ( script  for  7 1/2/ a day every 6 hrs during a recent hard fall ) but it got up to 40 mg a day (double) instead of 20-1/2 .  Can somebody suggest how to get this back down in 2 wks before I see PM.  I started yesterday 40 2 days ago, yesterday 35 but sleep terrible I think it is restless leg - so I took another gabapentin (my dog's he has only 100) I take 300 at night.  I am supplementing with 3 ativan a day 10 am, 2-3 pm and then 7 am (I am prescribed this 3 times a day) In the evening around 7 I get antsey very uncomfortable can't explain.  Can someone please that anyone who has done this please tell me how to do it.  I must do this myself.  In fact, can you tell me if I have been too bad.  Is this alot or not alot.  I hope I have not disappointed anyone I am really embrassed to share this with you all.  But I know I can get help here to do it the right way. Confused
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#16
(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!
How long does all this  take - lets suppose you didn't go wild on the increase ( script  for  7 1/2/ a day every 6 hrs during a recent hard fall ) but it got up to 40 mg a day (double) instead of 20-1/2 .  Can somebody suggest how to get this back down in 2 wks before I see PM.  I started yesterday 40 2 days ago, yesterday 35 but sleep terrible I think it is restless leg - so I took another gabapentin (my dog's he has only 100) I take 300 at night.  I am supplementing with 3 ativan a day 10 am, 2-3 pm and then 7 am (I am prescribed this 3 times a day) In the evening around 7 I get antsey very uncomfortable can't explain.  Can someone please that anyone who has done this please tell me how to do it.  I must do this myself.  In fact, can you tell me if I have been too bad.  Is this alot or not alot.  I hope I have not disappointed anyone I am really embrassed to share this with you all.  But I know I can get help here to do it the right way. Confused
What are you trying to eliminate, opiates or benzo's? It is hard to tell from your post what you are referring to. Garden variety opioid withdrawal i.e.: pharmaceutical pills can be addressed using a long acting benzo such as valium. Many also get relief from adding clonodine to the regimen. 40mg/day is the max valium therapeutic dose. I'll add a a caveat that we are all different, and quantity and duration of use of whatever you are trying to stop impacts the withdrawal process. In general, you should start to feel better in a couple of weeks if you are using the bentos to stop opiate withdrawals. Typically, a 10% to 15% reduction every 3-5 days will be manageable for most. So, if you start at Valium 40 mg on day 1, try dropping to 35 mg on day 4, 30 mg on Day 7, etc. Once you can get down to 10mg/day you can slow the process a bit more. Splitting the daily dose into three doses helps. Find an understanding doc and build a trust relationship, monitor your vitals-BP and HR, eat right, get some exercise, and try to find things to do that keep you occupied. It takes sleep patterns awhile to return to normal. There are some non-addictive meds out there like Trazadone or Hyroxyzine that most docs will prescribe for sleep during the withdrawal period. Overall, remember that withdrawal is going to be somewhat uncomfortable no matter what, but you can make it manageble with the proper approach. Find the dose where you can stabilize, then reduce incrementally as I described above. 
Good Luck,
GS
Reply
#17
As stated above, Diazepam should work well.
Reply
#18
(05-08-2017, 01:23 AM)germanshepherd Wrote:
(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!

(05-06-2017, 04:22 PM)Ladybug Wrote:
(10-08-2016, 05:46 AM)countfiet Wrote: Yes, Valium is the way to go, though mainly because it's a good combination of safety and efficacy (hence the reason doctors always recommend it for opiate w/d).

Despite not being a benzo, Soma is a godsend too (carisoprodal, a muscle relaxant-I find Valium/diazepam does little or definitely not enough for me in terms of its muscle relaxant properties/for stopping "micro-twitches"). But yes, Valium is great for the restless legs, anxiety, everything. If you really need help with strong physical pain in your arms or legs, though (where you're repeatedly hitting yourself in those areas, or others), Xanax seems to comfort the pain a little more, however, even gives this little "vibration" in the sore spots

I normally can't *stand* (most) benzos, but they do help loads during opiate withdrawal. I'm actually prescribed Valium but it makes me almost as apathetic as Xanax, so I'm weaning myself off, down to about 1.25mg or less per day.

Ambien (zolpidem) is also great for taking the edge off, not just for helping you sleep but for being able to immerse yourself in watching tv or reading and forgetting about the pain, also helping with the muscle-relaxing aspect (despite what Wikipedia says, though it might only be referring to its "limited" anxiolytic/anti-stress properties, which I also can't agree with, because it's simply a different way to alleviate the stress (hypnagogic/dreamy).

Yes, ambien too is not a benzo, being a benzo-like hypnotic, but it also mosulates GABAa receptors that benzos do (though ambien has strongest affinity to the alpha-1 subunit within the GABAa system while diazepam affects a wider range of α-subunits as well as beta and other parts of the GABAa receptor complex...this somewhat makes Valium better for covering a wider area of symptoms, including being such a good anti-convulsing).

It's sad that phenazepam is almost solely obtained in some crazy powder form in the west, because in Russia/ Eastern Europe, just sold (by prescription (good to have relatives who travel)) in reliable blister tablets (usually 1mg). It really helps with opiate w/d (most are unaware due to its lack of popularity, misuse, and shady forms in the West) because it has an even better half-life than Valium, but more importantly, does not make you so weak during w/d where it starts to ache and hurt being motionless etc. I discourage you to try and obtain it if you can only find it in unsafe non-tablet form.


And, of course, as many probably know, it's worth to mention that you should NOT take any benzos for longer than 2 weeks in such cases so you don't acquire a new addiction (accompanied by a terrible withdrawal). Use them for ideally no longer 7-10 days to ride out the roughest physical bits.


If you still need benzo assistance after the bulk of the physical w/d has passed (though things like chamomile tea, *lots* of fluids, valerian, and very moderate activity/movement (not necessarily exercise, unless it's yoga or something that affords good recovery and is not too taxing on the body) help loads in such a case, both during and after acute w/d's), you may want to use something like Ativan (lorazepam; or if unavailable to you, oxazepam is similar in such a case) during the PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) to keep you well psychologically and help overall (though low-dose Valium can also/still be of aid).


In closing, I definitely recommend having a few Xanax on hand, mainly for the worst 2-3 days, if you expect to be in a lot of physical/excruciating pain, as it just does more for that, followed by the Valium. Also, although they are cross-tolerant, your body will still have less time to adjust to the respective benzos if you begin with one (Xanax) and end with the other (Valium). Be careful, safe, and strong...you will get through this, good luck!
How long does all this  take - lets suppose you didn't go wild on the increase ( script  for  7 1/2/ a day every 6 hrs during a recent hard fall ) but it got up to 40 mg a day (double) instead of 20-1/2 .  Can somebody suggest how to get this back down in 2 wks before I see PM.  I started yesterday 40 2 days ago, yesterday 35 but sleep terrible I think it is restless leg - so I took another gabapentin (my dog's he has only 100) I take 300 at night.  I am supplementing with 3 ativan a day 10 am, 2-3 pm and then 7 am (I am prescribed this 3 times a day) In the evening around 7 I get antsey very uncomfortable can't explain.  Can someone please that anyone who has done this please tell me how to do it.  I must do this myself.  In fact, can you tell me if I have been too bad.  Is this alot or not alot.  I hope I have not disappointed anyone I am really embrassed to share this with you all.  But I know I can get help here to do it the right way. Confused
What are you trying to eliminate, opiates or benzo's? It is hard to tell from your post what you are referring to. Garden variety opioid withdrawal i.e.: pharmaceutical pills can be addressed using a long acting benzo such as valium. Many also get relief from adding clonodine to the regimen. 40mg/day is the max valium therapeutic dose. I'll add a a caveat that we are all different, and quantity and duration of use of whatever you are trying to stop impacts the withdrawal process. In general, you should start to feel better in a couple of weeks if you are using the bentos to stop opiate withdrawals. Typically, a 10% to 15% reduction every 3-5 days will be manageable for most. So, if you start at Valium 40 mg on day 1, try dropping to 35 mg on day 4, 30 mg on Day 7, etc. Once you can get down to 10mg/day you can slow the process a bit more. Splitting the daily dose into three doses helps. Find an understanding doc and build a trust relationship, monitor your vitals-BP and HR, eat right, get some exercise, and try to find things to do that keep you occupied. It takes sleep patterns awhile to return to normal. There are some non-addictive meds out there like Trazadone or Hyroxyzine that most docs will prescribe for sleep during the withdrawal period. Overall, remember that withdrawal is going to be somewhat uncomfortable no matter what, but you can make it manageble with the proper approach. Find the dose where you can stabilize, then reduce incrementally as I described above. 
Good Luck,
GS
40 mg of ativan would be lethal I would think, (I have script for ativan 1 mg three times a day ) no what I was talking about is percocet- I have inched up to 40 mg after my bad fall.  Doc script was for 7.5/325 every 6 hours and I have been taking a total of 40 a day - I am in my 5th day and I am down to 35mg.  The other night I had horrible restless legs, I walked the floor with it, guess it was from coming reducing the percocet.  I think you answered my question though, drop about 10% every 3 or 4 days.  I can do that - thanks for answering.
Reply
#19
Success I got back to 20 mg Perc and holding...going to be more careful in the future.  Actually the increased dose was making me nauseous and I feel normal again.  I am trying to try other things for the pain such as Yoga and I am filling out the paperwork for a personalized integrative medicine dr.  Pain will probably be with me for the future, so need to explore
Thanks for your help last couple weeks.
Reply
#20
A good out come I'm glad, out of interest Valium has worked in the past for me from all the Benzo's but strange thing being, V has never had an effect as a stand along B for the treatment of my condition. But I to, as with every one must watch that slow in-cress as it happens, when it does I do a day with a lower dose just to make sure I can still get by on the old dosage, even if it means a day down the drain, so to speak.
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