Feel free to ask any and all benzo questions here

[Bowser]

Hey everyone. I've been looking through posts in this section and decided to offer my help/experience/anecdotes/ opinions on benzos since a large percentage of threads are regarding benzodiazepines. This is not a totally selfless pursuit, of course. I am rather anxious to reach the 50 post mark

A little background on myself while trying to maintain some anonymity here. I am in my mid 30s and have been prescribed various benzos for 20 years. My background is in pharmaceuticals (12 years) although I must note I AM NOT NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A LICENSED PHARMACIST. I was put into a rather unique situation when I was working in a local hospital and became something of a minor expert in the benzodiazepine field. I hold several degrees and certifications in natural medicine but that is neither here nor there unless you're familiar with the coursework and/or requirements for that area of study.

Aside from those notes, I have apparently fairly unique reactions to various benzos and have thus been on almost any commercially available form at one time or another so I think my ramblings may do some good for those in need or help or even just someone to talk to. Just in case, however, I will also say the standard: ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY IS PURELY BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND IS IN NO WAY MEANT TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CONSULTATION WITH AN ACTUAL MEDICAL DOCTOR.

I realize this is only my fourth post but I'd like to try to have a positive impact on this forum. If I'm in some way stepping on toes or breaking a rule I missed, please let me know, mods. Otherwise I hope to help out and also maybe help condense some possible future threads into this little area here.

Oh one last thing. I work for myself and thus have a few hours a day in which I do nothing but check the few forums I belong to. If this thread is alright with the mods and anyone decides to utilize it, I will usually get back to you in less than 12 hours. I know, kinda sad.

Edit to add: I will NOT address questions on RC benzos. Again, if this thread is allowed to stand, perhaps I will in the future but for right now RC questions will be ignored.

[Bowser]

Hey there Breacher, thanks for the question!

That's actually a question I've been asked fairly frequently over the years. The short answer is... somewhat. I look at anxiety in the different groups. What I call "casual" anxiety - people who get a bit antsy in certain situations - and legitimate anxiety - those of us with GAD, panic disorder or severe panic attacks caused by depression or other issues.

People with casual anxiety generally do well with standard "calming" supplements. The kind you'll find in the vitamin section of a pharmacy. Those are usually some kind of mixture of things like valerian, chamomile, lemon balm, lavender, etc. Administered to someone with legitimate anxiety will usually only result in some symptoms being magnified (particularly confusion and paranoia in my experience, though I have no evidence of such because like I said, plain old experience.) So for someone that's a bit antsy about social situations or had mild work related stress or something along those lines it's worth a shot.

Then there's vitamins. Vitamins B1, B3 and B6 actually helped me stop alprazolam for a few days several times. Vitamin C helps those out a considerable amount when taking B vitamins as well. Even higher doses of plain old vitamin C are helpful in that they calm the nervous system and have a mild sedative effect, though I won't delve into dosages. Anyone interested in that can find their personal ideal amount with a bit of googling prowess.

Another is natural GABA (neurotransmitter). A diet with a lot of GABA containing foods definitely works at least a noticeable amount in people with both forms of anxiety. Mackerel, soy, almonds and almond milk are just a few things off the top of my head that contain high amounts of GABA. There are also "GABA teas" available from health food stores and various sites, Amazon included, that are much more concentrated and are thus better to drink a bit of in the case of an attack than say chasing a tin of almonds with a few mackerel and glass of soy milk. I can say from experience that the teas do indeed work unless you're withdrawing from a benzo or having a SEVERE episode.

The next two i can't in good conscience recommend but will include.

I can vouch for kava personally. The problem here is that the FDA has issued multiple warnings about the effects of kava on the liver, even with extremely limited, short term use. It's use is also banned in the UK and several (possibly all) European countries. I personally believe that kava is totally safe and poses no threat to a person's health if produced TRADITIONALLY. Modern production methods are the problem causing part of the equation, in my opinion. I've already gone further on this than id like to have but if anyone would like to discuss this further, I'm game. Again, though, I do not recommend trying this unless you're familiar with traditional formulation and live in a place where it is legal.

The last thing I'll address isn't actually natural but instead produces a natural reaction in your body. Its called phenibut. It is a GABA agonist and while, again in my experience and opinion it can actually replace benzos if you're on a low dose or very early into treatment, I can't recommend it. It is not regulated and is sold as a nutritional supplement (GABA-A is actually a large part of lean muscle development) and also and a pseudo-natural treatment for anxiety and insomnia. This is far and away the most effective anxiolytic I've listed but I currently have a close friend who moved from huge doses of alprazolam to ENORMOUS phenibut doses and made out very well for around 6 weeks but has been exhibiting withdrawal symptoms of late along with some side effects. I honestly do not know how honest he has been with me about his use of other drugs and medications so I can't be sure about his problems. As I said, I have much personal experience with this supplement but for now I can't say I would suggest this to anyone.

Wow. That was another rambling post but I hope I gave you a bit of insight. If you'd like to know more about anything, feel free to ask!

---

Hey erol34, thanks for asking!

Is there any chance you could be more specific with your problem? Is it more trouble falling asleep or more trouble staying asleep? A combination?

In any scenario, I would NOT recommend any "z" drugs. Just awful and when you do sleep, there's absolutely NO restful sleep. I'll reserve my benzo suggestions until I have a better idea of what part of the sleep cycle is the problem. I will say, though, if you're familiar with "PM" pain relievers, you've probably noticed that the "PM" part of the pill is diphenhydramine.

That's correct for people that didn't know: Tylenol PM, PM cold and flu pills, virtually EVERY OTC "PM med" has only ingredient that makes you tired... BENADRYL. I'm not going to say it doesn't work but if it does work for you it doesn't work for more than 3-4 nights and ¾ of people that use it for sleep end up with a kind of antihistamine hangover. It's fairly unpleasant.

The upside? The alternative. I can only speak for the US but if you have a CVS or Walgreen's nearby (those are the only two places I know for a fact ALL carry it) you can get doxylamine succinate. It's another antihistamine so it's perfectly legal, it works quickly and stays in your system at a relatively steady level for 6 hours meaning it will let you fall and stay asleep... roughly 6-8 hours. Even if you don't have that long (need to be up early but can't sleep or some such scenario) it doesn't have a "druggy" feeling. You just... wake up.

The downside here is that it's not exactly common. You have to check all of the OTC sleep section labels. CVS carries store brand doxylamine tablets that are fairly cheap (something like $10 for 50) but as far as I know the only other option is (I BELIEVE) Unisom Sleep Gels. Those are about the same price for a dozen I think.

Anyway, if you want to specify further, I'll give you some banzo ideas. If not, good luck!

---

Hi again erol34, I have to apologize for my total ignorance as to how this forum works, I seem to have somehow edited your answer into the previous answer.I have not the slightest idea how to edit this but if you go toward the end there,you'llffind an answer to your question 

[Bowser]

---

Hey erol34, thanks for asking!

Is there any chance you could be more specific with your problem? Is it more trouble falling asleep or more trouble staying asleep? A combination?

In any scenario, I would NOT recommend any "z" drugs. Just awful and when you do sleep, there's absolutely NO restful sleep. I'll reserve my benzo suggestions until I have a better idea of what part of the sleep cycle is the problem. I will say, though, if you're familiar with "PM" pain relievers, you've probably noticed that the "PM" part of the pill is diphenhydramine.

That's correct for people that didn't know: Tylenol PM, PM cold and flu pills, virtually EVERY OTC "PM med" has only ingredient that makes you tired... BENADRYL. I'm not going to say it doesn't work but if it does work for you it doesn't work for more than 3-4 nights and ¾ of people that use it for sleep end up with a kind of antihistamine hangover. It's fairly unpleasant.

The upside? The alternative. I can only speak for the US but if you have a CVS or Walgreen's nearby (those are the only two places I know for a fact ALL carry it) you can get doxylamine succinate. It's another antihistamine so it's perfectly legal, it works quickly and stays in your system at a relatively steady level for 6 hours meaning it will let you fall and stay asleep... roughly 6-8 hours. Even if you don't have that long (need to be up early but can't sleep or some such scenario) it doesn't have a "druggy" feeling. You just... wake up.

The downside here is that it's not exactly common. You have to check all of the OTC sleep section labels. CVS carries store brand doxylamine tablets that are fairly cheap (something like $10 for 50) but as far as I know the only other option is (I BELIEVE) Unisom Sleep Gels. Those are about the same price for a dozen I think.

Anyway, if you want to specify further, I'll give you some banzo ideas. If not, good luck!

---

Hi again erol34, I have to apologize for my total ignorance as to how this forum works, I seem to have somehow edited your answer into the previous answer.I have not the slightest idea how to edit this but if you go toward the end there,you'llffind an answer to your question 

Thanks.  It's extreme insomnia -- both onset and maintenance -- that I've had every day for the last 10 years, after 35 years of totally normal sleep.  Most likely due to a nasty concussion that preceded it.  Anyway, I've tried just about everything there is to try.  Benadryl and NyQuil won't even touch it.  Ambien helps a bit (couple hours).  Ativan seems to last longer, but doesn't always work.  Just curious if you know of something obscure that I might not have tried.

Have you tried temazepam? That's pretty standard in the way of benzos for sleep. A chewed up 10mg Valium under the tongue works fast and lasts. Ativan is the last thing I'd recommend, honestly. The fast onset is nice but the elimination is much too fast. Even Xanax will keep you out longer generally speaking because the dose hits fast but it also hits hard despite its even faster elimination.

I'm going to break one of my own rules and suggest an RC if nothing else helps. Phenazepam. It's mostly legal... well, everywhere. Fast onset. Longer elimination than Valium. The problem is that I don't think even former USSR countries actually prescribe it anymore so your only real option is to order powder form but you'd need to familiarize yourself with dosing down into the high mcg range. 1mg is therapeutic. 2mg is therapeutic and euphoric. 3mg is venturing into possible days-long blackout territory. It's scary if you're not VERY familiar with volumetrics.

I'd say try some temazepam first. If that's not good enough you could consider klonopin/ritrovil but the onset is roughly 2 hours so that's not quite ideal for you. Consider the Valium if you haven't. And finally, before I say to even CONSIDER phenazepam, i'm going to break another rule and say look into phenibut. 125mg before bed with your lorazepam will enhance the effects for sure noticeably and possibly solve the problem without having to worry about dependence any mkre than you would now since phenibut allegedly is not habit forming.

If you need clarification or anything else, feel free to ask and again, good luck!

[jasper]

You seem to have some good info, glad to see you trying to help.

[Charon]

hey, bowser. i think in reviewing it today, again, that ur thread is just fine. good luck.

[bio2016]

Hey everyone. I've been looking through posts in this section and decided to offer my help/experience/anecdotes/ opinions on benzos since a large percentage of threads are regarding benzodiazepines. This is not a totally selfless pursuit, of course. I am rather anxious to reach the 50 post mark

A little background on myself while trying to maintain some anonymity here. I am in my mid 30s and have been prescribed various benzos for 20 years. My background is in pharmaceuticals (12 years) although I must note I AM NOT NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A LICENSED PHARMACIST. I was put into a rather unique situation when I was working in a local hospital and became something of a minor expert in the benzodiazepine field. I hold several degrees and certifications in natural medicine but that is neither here nor there unless you're familiar with the coursework and/or requirements for that area of study.

Aside from those notes, I have apparently fairly unique reactions to various benzos and have thus been on almost any commercially available form at one time or another so I think my ramblings may do some good for those in need or help or even just someone to talk to. Just in case, however, I will also say the standard: ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY IS PURELY BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND IS IN NO WAY MEANT TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CONSULTATION WITH AN ACTUAL MEDICAL DOCTOR.

I realize this is only my fourth post but I'd like to try to have a positive impact on this forum. If I'm in some way stepping on toes or breaking a rule I missed, please let me know, mods. Otherwise I hope to help out and also maybe help condense some possible future threads into this little area here.

Oh one last thing. I work for myself and thus have a few hours a day in which I do nothing but check the few forums I belong to. If this thread is alright with the mods and anyone decides to utilize it, I will usually get back to you in less than 12 hours. I know, kinda sad.

Edit to add: I will NOT address questions on RC benzos. Again, if this thread is allowed to stand, perhaps I will in the future but for right now RC questions will be ignored.

Can you please tell me what Ativan does? i have some and i never tryed it ,its saying that  i might have some hallucinations is that true ? anybody who tryed Ativan any feedback on it ?

[Bowser]

Jasper - thanks for stopping by! I just want to contribute what I know and maybe help some people. Small things in life and all of that haha

Charon - I was actually planning on contacting you since I hadn't heard whether or not this thread was alright but I'm glad you've decided to let it stick! Thanks!

Bio - Ativan is probably best compared to Xanax in terms of onset time and duration. Aside from that, both are obviously anxiolytics. In the strictest comparison, though, the similarities essentially end there. Example: I have severe agoraphobia. I take Xanax for it. Ativan doesn't work with agoraphobia at all. There are many different indications for Ativan. It can be just an anxiolytic. It can be used before small surgical procedures. Alcohol DTs. Seizures (now that I think about it it's actually kind of a short acting, fast onset Klonopin as much as it is similar to Xanax).

Anyway, my experience is limited here. I have paradoxical side effect problems with lorazepam. Increased anxiety, confusion, rage, violent outbursts. I can tell you that if you're experiencing hallucinations from lorazepam or any other benzo, you need to get to the ER immediately. That's a sign of a SEVERE adverse reaction or interaction. As usual with benzos, other CNS depressants and some oddball things can cause severe interactions so if you're hoping for hallucinations you're either going to be disappointed or in the hospital. If you're not and that was your concern, you're in luck; that kind of adverse reaction is far less than 1 incident per 1000 people.

[bio2016]

Jasper - thanks for stopping by! I just want to contribute what I know and maybe help some people. Small things in life and all of that haha

Charon - I was actually planning on contacting you since I hadn't heard whether or not this thread was alright but I'm glad you've decided to let it stick! Thanks!

Bio - Ativan is probably best compared to Xanax in terms of onset time and duration. Aside from that, both are obviously anxiolytics. In the strictest comparison, though, the similarities essentially end there. Example: I have severe agoraphobia. I take Xanax for it. Ativan doesn't work with agoraphobia at all. There are many different indications for Ativan. It can be just an anxiolytic. It can be used before small surgical procedures. Alcohol DTs. Seizures (now that I think about it it's actually kind of a short acting, fast onset Klonopin as much as it is similar to Xanax).

Anyway, my experience is limited here. I have paradoxical side effect problems with lorazepam. Increased anxiety, confusion, rage, violent outbursts. I can tell you that if you're experiencing hallucinations from lorazepam or any other benzo, you need to get to the ER immediately. That's a sign of a SEVERE adverse reaction or interaction. As usual with benzos, other CNS depressants and some oddball things can cause severe interactions so if you're hoping for hallucinations you're either going to be disappointed or in the hospital. If you're not and that was your concern, you're in luck; that kind of adverse reaction is far less than 1 incident per 1000 people.

thank you Jasper that was very helpfull i tryed xanax,kpins,valium...but never Ativan...i guess im up for surprice right )i never had halucinations from any benzos ...but some people did describe Ativan in this manner thats why i was curious,i take benzos to go to sleep and i work 7 days a week i cannot afford to be flying in the skyes on benzos lol so i really appreciate your responce Jasper

[Rumor]

A benzo that is also used for sleep, is halcion. It has a reasonably short half life, so you may not sleep as long as you want to, but I have never woken up groggy, either. I believe I mentioned in another thread that I have a friend who has issues with both falling asleep and staying asleep. They take .25mg of halcion and 50 or 100mg of trazadone, which many doctors will prescribe and is fairly inexpensive. I certainly don't have the credentials of Bowser, but for most of us it is a trial and error process to find the correct product(s), in the correct dosage and possibly combination. Rumor

[nwiron]

Halcion is a great one for sleep. I just wish the duration was longer. Thanks for this thread, Bowser. Very informative so far.