06-02-2016, 04:25 PM
Hi Bowser,
This is a really interesting thread. My background is psychology, so that touches some of the issues you have raised (plus my ex was a pharmacist). Anything I post is done in a personal capacity. I cannot diagnose people on this forum - sorry.
My background... Long history of depression and anxiety (GAD). As I've grown older I have more coping skills for depression and take St Johns Wort as a preventative measure. The anxiety hasn't got better and that is partly due to my career demanding more of me. SSRIs and TCAs have not helped. A doctor put me on diazepam to help deal with side effects from citalopram. This was to be short term until things settled down. You can probably guess what happened... years later I am still on diazepam but not citalopram.
The interesting thing is that I have kept my dose low. Very early on I discovered the addictive properties and have done everything to resist increasing. Over six years I have crept up from 5mg to around 10mg of diazepam (or equivalent when taking other benzos). Doctors are generally surprised it is this low. Last year a new doc told me that when I mentioned the length of time he had been expecting me to be on hundreds of mgs, so in that respective I have been fortunate.
I know about the Ashton method for tapering, but my high stress job and various life events mean there is never a good time to cut down. You have commented to others about switching benzos and doing partial tapers to keep tolerance low. Should I be switching out to something else? Bromazepam works well for me, but are you advocating switching *pam for *lam? Is there anything I should be adding to my diet or supplements that would help me stay at my 10mg plateau, and then maybe taper downwards? I honestly find the idea of zero very scary. Diazepam works very well for me, so how long can I maintain 10mg before I am so tolerant that it is at best placebo and at worst mild withdrawal?
Z-drugs - I was interested that you are basically fairly anti z-drug on the basis of poor quality sleep. In your view are some better/worse than others? Could you be more specific about the changes to sleep? Do you mean less REM or something like that? How does this compare to hypnotic benzos? I was a bit worried about sedating antihistamines due to the possible link with dementia.
Phenibut - Never taken it, but heard many stories about people on massive doses. In your view, how does it compare with baclofen? Given some people are using this to make them indifferent to alcohol (albeit with mixed success), are those individuals going to end up on ever higher doses of baclofen? Keep in mind people using for alcohol generally need a high dose to start with 100-300mg.
Sleep - Any opinion on 5-HTP as a sleep aid? I am on SJW, so wonder about the potential for serotonin syndrome, but I would guess the odds are pretty low. What do you reckon? I struggle getting to sleep, but the real killer is waking at 3am.
Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for giving up your time and knowledge.
All the best, barq
This is a really interesting thread. My background is psychology, so that touches some of the issues you have raised (plus my ex was a pharmacist). Anything I post is done in a personal capacity. I cannot diagnose people on this forum - sorry.
My background... Long history of depression and anxiety (GAD). As I've grown older I have more coping skills for depression and take St Johns Wort as a preventative measure. The anxiety hasn't got better and that is partly due to my career demanding more of me. SSRIs and TCAs have not helped. A doctor put me on diazepam to help deal with side effects from citalopram. This was to be short term until things settled down. You can probably guess what happened... years later I am still on diazepam but not citalopram.
The interesting thing is that I have kept my dose low. Very early on I discovered the addictive properties and have done everything to resist increasing. Over six years I have crept up from 5mg to around 10mg of diazepam (or equivalent when taking other benzos). Doctors are generally surprised it is this low. Last year a new doc told me that when I mentioned the length of time he had been expecting me to be on hundreds of mgs, so in that respective I have been fortunate.
I know about the Ashton method for tapering, but my high stress job and various life events mean there is never a good time to cut down. You have commented to others about switching benzos and doing partial tapers to keep tolerance low. Should I be switching out to something else? Bromazepam works well for me, but are you advocating switching *pam for *lam? Is there anything I should be adding to my diet or supplements that would help me stay at my 10mg plateau, and then maybe taper downwards? I honestly find the idea of zero very scary. Diazepam works very well for me, so how long can I maintain 10mg before I am so tolerant that it is at best placebo and at worst mild withdrawal?
Quote:if I were to search for and post a study linking frequent small dosage vs infrequent moderate dosage stating that the former was more likely to lead to dependence and/or addiction, I could find a study stating the exact opposite with another quick search and then a third stating the risks are, for all intents and purposes, identical.I take your point, but isn't this where you would search for a systematic review or meta-analysis?
Z-drugs - I was interested that you are basically fairly anti z-drug on the basis of poor quality sleep. In your view are some better/worse than others? Could you be more specific about the changes to sleep? Do you mean less REM or something like that? How does this compare to hypnotic benzos? I was a bit worried about sedating antihistamines due to the possible link with dementia.
Phenibut - Never taken it, but heard many stories about people on massive doses. In your view, how does it compare with baclofen? Given some people are using this to make them indifferent to alcohol (albeit with mixed success), are those individuals going to end up on ever higher doses of baclofen? Keep in mind people using for alcohol generally need a high dose to start with 100-300mg.
Sleep - Any opinion on 5-HTP as a sleep aid? I am on SJW, so wonder about the potential for serotonin syndrome, but I would guess the odds are pretty low. What do you reckon? I struggle getting to sleep, but the real killer is waking at 3am.
Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for giving up your time and knowledge.
All the best, barq