+- IOPList.Org (https://www.ioplist.org)
+-- Forum: International Online Pharmacies (https://www.ioplist.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: IOP General Discussion (https://www.ioplist.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? (/showthread.php?tid=1829)
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Back2Good - 04-17-2016
(04-17-2016, 10:31 PM)noahphex Wrote: Anything up to a 3 month supply should be good.
Sorry friend, the "90-day supply" guideline is a thing of the past...And it was sketchy even when it was documented in the FDA guidelines, they left themselves plenty of wiggle room to prosecute if they felt like it.
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - AJ1963 - 04-18-2016
(04-17-2016, 11:53 PM)Back2Good Wrote:(04-17-2016, 10:31 PM)noahphex Wrote: Anything up to a 3 month supply should be good.
Sorry friend, the "90-day supply" guideline is a thing of the past...And it was sketchy even when it was documented in the FDA guidelines, they left themselves plenty of wiggle room to prosecute if they felt like it.
A 90 day supply is a standard on the higher schedule drugs and 30 day supplies.  Maybe we should try as hard to stick with this by law standards but not trying to suggest anything illegal mods correct me if I am out of line... sometimes it is ok to stock up in case of extreme situations
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Back2Good - 04-18-2016
If you take the time to read the current FDA guidelines for importation of medications for personal use (which only cover importation via declaring them at a US Customs inspection Facility when returning to the US from foreign travel (import via international or interstate mail is not permitted at all) you'll see there are two requirements: You must have a prescription for the medication from a US doctor, and the number of "dosage units" is limited to 50. Not a "50-day supply", but 50 tablets.
"A 90 day supply is a standard on the higher schedule drugs and 30 day supplies" is dangerous misinformation - Whose standard is that? Can you provide a pointer to any such "standard" in published FDA guidelines or procedures?
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Dancing Wolf - 04-20-2016
It is scary and stressful - so many points where something can go wrong, between vendor and customer.
Risking money, personal info being outed, postal workers, LE...
I keep orders small-ish even tho I know the 90 day supply guideline no longer applies.
It comforts me to think I won't draw much attention with lower #'s - even if it might not be true.
Angers me that our government tries to control our lives (and the doctors) to where patients don't receive appropriate treatment they should quite often, so resort to this.
After years, received first LL's last year.
Now I feel very uncomfortable, since I'm in rural area. People talk and know everything about everyone.
I wonder if postal workers notice return addresses on LLs (I would if was a postal worker).
Then fears come that local postal workers will watch my packages after seeing the LLs.
(or am I just paranoid? Worries me)
Has anyone heard about a person having problem because postal workers were suspicious and watched them after seeing LLs?
(apologize if this is off-topic, please move to where it would be appropriate - thank you!)
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Back2Good - 04-20-2016
(04-20-2016, 08:21 AM)Dancing Wolf Wrote: It is scary and stressful - so many points where something can go wrong, between vendor and customer.
Risking money, personal info being outed, postal workers, LE...
I keep orders small-ish even tho I know the 90 day supply guideline no longer applies.
It comforts me to think I won't draw much attention with lower #'s - even if it might not be true.
Angers me that our government tries to control our lives (and the doctors) to where patients don't receive appropriate treatment they should quite often, so resort to this.
After years, received first LL's last year.
Now I feel very uncomfortable, since I'm in rural area. People talk and know everything about everyone.
I wonder if postal workers notice return addresses on LLs (I would if was a postal worker).
Then fears come that local postal workers will watch my packages after seeing the LLs.
(or am I just paranoid? Worries me)
Has anyone heard about a person having problem because postal workers were suspicious and watched them after seeing LLs?
(apologize if this is off-topic, please move to where it would be appropriate - thank you!)
I'm in a pretty small town as well, and have received at least 5 LLs over the past 10 years - And our postal carrier has been the same lady since we moved here. She doesn't bat an eye when I sign for packages, so I wouldn't sweat LL's or registered mail - The real worry is shabby packaging that a postal inspector is able to see the contents of. LL's just make me curse due to the lost order - I've been at this address for 15 years now, and never used another, I just make another order. Given the volume of mail I see in her carrier vehicle (and hers is just one of dozens of routes supporting our ZIP code, I doubt the sorters or carriers are looking at the return address, they have enough trouble getting the delivery address right
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - KayaMan002 - 04-21-2016
Hey dancing wolf, all I can say from experience, even in a small town, money talks.
As does treating your carrier kindly and respectfully, not too over the edge on the kindness though.
Then it seems strange and fake and suspicious. But always a Christmas envelope w money of course.
If u do that, even if ur carrier has any idea about it, they usually turn a blind eye to the situation ..
Just my opinion of course,
Good luck my friend
Regards
J
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Chickenzilla - 04-21-2016
I've gotten 3 LL in the past year.. Is that a lot? Do they notice your name the first time and then look for it later? I also had a package come the same time a LL came LOL.
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - G.Elias - 04-21-2016
If you received a package with an LL then i doubt they check everything going to your address,think most postal systems are far too busy to be checking every envelope that they handle,if they did we wouldn't be here.
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - IceCreamMan - 04-23-2016
Yes I think the same the USPS and Customs are 2 different sections completely I think when customs turns the already confiscated items out of your package and passes in on the the USPS. They have no idea the letter inside is a LL. Sorry back on topic, 90 days I think.
RE: How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order? - Back2Good - 04-23-2016
Hi IceCreamMan (every time I see your handle I think of the David Lee Roth incarnation of Van Halen's song),
USPS and Customs are two completely separate entities. Here's how USPS explains the process for incoming foreign mail:
Foreign mail is accepted by a USPS International Point of Exchange, these are located at Seaports and Airports.
All foreign mail is subject to inspection by US CBP (Customs and Border Patrol), except for:
- Mail addressed to ambassadors and ministers (chiefs of diplomatic missions) of foreign countries.
- Letter mail known to contain or believed to contain only correspondence or documents addressed to diplomatic missions or to the officers of diplomatic missions; to international organizations designated by the president as public international organizations pursuant to the International Organizations Immunities Act; and other mail addressed to such international organizations pursuant to instructions issued by the U.S. Department of the Treasury.
- Mail known to contain or believed to contain only official documents addressed to officials of the U.S. government.
Mail believed to contain articles liable to customs duty or prohibited articles is submitted immediately to a customs location as identified in 711.62[url=http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc7_001.htm#ep28696][/url], except when exchange offices are authorized to redispatch such mail to designated distribution offices for customs treatment.
Did you catch that? Mail believed to contain articles liable to customs duty or prohibited articles...
Hm. So now we have a subjective decision being made by a USPS worker as to whether he or she believes a mail item contains prohibited articles. If not, the article is immediately processed for onward dispatch without inspection by CBP. It wouldn't be wise to describe here the criteria used by USPS to make that subjective decision, but some Googling will get you that answer. Suffice it to say there's a reason some vendors consistently have 90+ % delivery success rates.
Now, as for the supposed "90-day supply" loophole:
Not to belabor the point (or come across as a jackass), the FDA really has caused problems for a lot of people with their guidance regarding 90-day supplies, to wit:
In most circumstances, it is illegal for individuals to import drugs into the United States for personal use. This is because drugs from other countries that are available for purchase by individuals often have not been approved by FDA for use and sale in the United States. For example, if a drug is approved by Health Canada (FDA’s counterpart in Canada) but has not been approved by FDA, it is an unapproved drug in the United States and, therefore, illegal to import. FDA cannot ensure the safety and effectiveness of drugs that it has not approved.
FDA, however, has a policy explaining that it typically does not object to personal imports of drugs that FDA has not approved under certain circumstances, including the following situation:
- The drug is for use for a serious condition for which effective treatment is not available in the United States;
- There is no commercialization or promotion of the drug to U.S. residents;
- The drug is considered not to represent an unreasonable risk;
- The individual importing the drug verifies in writing that it is for his or her own use, and provides contact information for the doctor providing treatment or shows the product is for the continuation of treatment begun in a foreign country; and
- Generally, not more than a 3-month supply of the drug is imported.
But what about drugs that ARE FDA approved, and available commercially (with a prescription)?
It must be emphasized that the intent of the personal use importation guidance is to save FDA resources and to generally permit, through the exercise of enforcement discretion, medical treatments sought by individuals that are not otherwise available in the United States (where such treatments are not promoted/commercialized in the U.S.). Thus, foreign-made chemical versions of drugs available in the U.S. are not intended to be covered by the policy. For example, a person may decide that his or her FDA approved heart medication is cheaper in Mexico, and attempt to import the unapproved version of the drug from Mexico. FDA cannot assure that such products have been properly manufactured and are effective; therefore, given that such products are available in the U.S., their use would present an unreasonable risk and the guidance would not apply (unless the person seeking their importation could establish that the drugs were needed to refill a prescription while traveling or were otherwise needed while traveling).
Likewise, a drug such as Valium is available in the U.S. and, as such, a foreign-made version of the U.S. approved drug would not generally be considered a candidate to be permitted entry under the guidance. However, because the United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) may have specific requirements that apply to the importation of controlled substances such as Valium, FDA's guidance on personal importations specifically provides that controlled substances should be returned to Customs for handling.
That's pretty clear. If a drug is approved by the FDA and available in the US, then it is illegal to order that drug from foreign pharmacies. Now, given CBP's budget and manpower constraints, the only consequence of a CBP seizure at an international point of exchange a buyer will ever see is an LL, providing the amount confiscated isn't enough to supply a city block for 30 days (those quantities of drugs enter the US via methods that avoid USPS and CBP altogether, and they are the ones DEA is most interested in)
As always, this isn't gospel or holy writ, except for the part about the illegality of ordering drugs from foreign pharmacies. I wrote earlier in this thread about how accidents or stupidity can result in more than an LL for an IOP order, so I won't repeat it here - In the end, the song remains the same, you plays the game, and you takes your chances.
Best,
- b2g
Oh, and for you, IceCreamMan: