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  Us wants to treat kratom like Big H
Posted by: Charon - 02-11-2018, 03:23 PM - Forum: World News - Replies (1)

The Washington Post
Democracy Dies in Darknes

Health & Science
Kratom is hailed as a natural pain remedy, assailed as an addictive killer. The U.S. wants to treat it like heroin.
By Laurie McGinley and Katie Zezima February 10 at 6:19 PM Email the author

Nancy Knoebel keeps mementos and photographs of her son, Danny Teichman, in her home in Bethlehem, Pa. Teichman died from a kratom overdose in November 2016. (Jessica Kourkounis/For The Washington Post)
Andrew Turner’s years in the military left him suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, back pain and the effects of an injury that mangled his hand. “I was a broken toy,” he said. Tossed aside. Barely able to get off the couch.

Then he started using an herbal supplement that he says saved his life: kratom.

Nancy Knoebel’s 27-year-old son began using kratom after he stopped taking medication to treat his heroin addiction. He was having withdrawal symptoms, so he turned to the herbal remedy. Within a few months, Knoebel’s son was dead from what a medical examiner determined were the “toxic effects” of kratom.

“If kratom hadn’t killed him, he’d be alive and sober,” Knoebel said. “It was like someone ran a red light and killed him.”

Rapidly rising in popularity, kratom is hailed as a readily available pain remedy that is safer than traditional opioids (such as oxycodone), an effective addiction withdrawal aid and a pleasurable recreational tonic. Kratom also is assailed as a dangerous and unregulated drug that can be purchased on the Internet, a habit-forming substance that authorities say can result in opioid-like abuse and death.

Now, the compound is at the center of an acrimonious battle on social media, in federal agencies and at all levels of government — a fight over whether kratom could help curb the nation’s opioid epidemic or make it dramatically worse.

The Drug Enforcement Administration is weighing whether to place kratom, which comes from a leafy Southeast Asian tree, in the same category of illegal drugs as heroin. It’s the second time the agency has tried to curb access to kratom, delaying a final decision in 2016 after an outcry from the public, dozens of members of Congress and a demonstration at the White House.

What is kratom? Find out why the FDA says this herb is an opioid.
Here's what you need to know about the unregulated herb called kratom. (Monica Akhtar, Zoeann Murphy, John Parks/The Washington Post)

This time, the DEA is getting high-profile support for a crackdown from the Food and Drug Administration, which has repeatedly warned about the dangers of the substance and says it has identified 44 deaths associated with its use since 2011. On Tuesday, the agency said the new computer model it developed shows that kratom contains opioid compounds with potentially deadly side effects such as seizures and depressed breathing. The FDA emphasizes that there is no evidence that kratom is safe for any medical use, including for the treatment of opioid withdrawal symptoms.

“Claiming that kratom is benign because it’s ‘just a plant’ is shortsighted and dangerous,” FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in statement. “After all, heroin is an illegal, dangerous, and highly addictive substance” derived from opium poppies.

Gottlieb’s stance has sparked a torrent of criticism from kratom backers. The American Kratom Association, a nonprofit organization that promotes access to kratom, called the FDA’s model “garbage in, garbage out.” The group contends that the agency’s conclusions contain “clear mistakes,” including the allegation that the compound can cause breathing problems.

Some scientists worry that a ban could shut down research on kratom as a potentially important pain medication while leaving current users without safe alternatives.

Scientists think that kratom binds to opioid receptors in the brain, leading to pain relief and possibly an aversion to traditional opioid drugs.

“It seems like a lot of people have used kratom to get off more dangerous opioids or to treat intractable pain not managed successfully with drugs,” said Columbia University research chemist Andrew Kruegel, who has authored studies on the pharmacology of botanics. “And if you take their lifeline, some fraction may go back to heroin or fentanyl or even prescription opioids.”

Bertha K. Madras, a professor of psychobiology at Harvard Medical School, said such claims that kratom is beneficial are not scientifically substantiated. There haven’t been any human clinical trials that show definitively how kratom acts in the body or how it interacts with other drugs.

“I support the FDA on this,” Madras said. “I really believe they have taken a cautionary stance, which is to protect the American public.”

The powder in kratom capsules, shown in a photo illustration, comes from the leaves of a tree native to Southeast Asia. (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
Essentially unregulated
The tropical tree causing the furor, Mitragyna speciosa, is native to countries including Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand. A member of the coffee family, kratom was long popular with Southeast Asian farmworkers who would take it to boost productivity and as a substitute for opium. Taken in small doses, kratom acts as a stimulant; at higher doses, it can be used for sedation.

Kratom surfaced in the United States about a decade ago; an estimated 3 million to 5 million people use it, according to the American Kratom Association. People consume it by swallowing capsules of finely ground powder, drinking kratom tea or chewing and swallowing the plant’s bitter leaves. Some “toss and wash” by putting a clump of powder in their mouths, followed by a slug of water.

Essentially unregulated, kratom is widely available on the Internet and is sold in some head shops, gas stations and corner stores. It has been banned for sale and possession in at least five states and in several cities, including the District and San Diego.

Depending on how it is marketed, the FDA considers kratom either an unapproved drug or a new dietary ingredient whose safety has not been proved, making it subject to enforcement actions, including seizure.

In August 2016, the DEA announced plans to temporarily place kratom’s active materials in Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act “to avoid an imminent hazard to public safety.” It said kratom had a high potential for abuse, did not have any currently accepted medical use and was not considered safe even when used under medical supervision.

The agency received more than 23,000 comments, mostly negative, along with complaints from dozens of members of Congress, spurring it to withdraw the plan to wait for a comprehensive medical evaluation and recommendation from the FDA.

While the FDA’s assessment has not been released, Gottlieb has made it clear that he does not want to repeat the agency’s past mistakes in failing to put the brakes on the opioid crisis. “We’ve learned a tragic lesson from the opioid crisis, that we must pay early attention to the potential for new products to cause addiction and we must take strong, decisive measures to intervene,” he said late last year.

Marc Swogger, a clinical psychologist at the University of Rochester Medical Center who has studied the plant, has said that the government’s attitude toward kratom is “drug hysteria.” He and others also are skeptical of the estimated death toll from kratom.

“It’s all anecdotal, and in many cases other substances were involved,” Swogger said. “It’s just very, very poor evidence.” The list of 44 deaths, for example, includes nine cases in Sweden in which kratom was laced with a powerful opioid, and just one in which kratom was the only substance present.

Madras worries that the number of deaths associated with kratom could be much higher than the FDA’s count because “nobody monitors it” and because medical examiners aren’t doing toxicology screenings to find it.

A Thai Malay man breaks up the leaf used in kratom into a pan in Narathiwat Province, in southern Thailand, to form part of a popular and cheap narcotic drink. (Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)
‘I have gotten my life back’
For Turner, the problem wasn’t addiction. It was pain, anxiety and depression. By early 2015, he was barely able to leave his house in Hyattsville, Md., and he decided to take a drastic step: He quit his prescription pain medications and tried kratom, which he found online.

After his third time using kratom, he noticed that his mood was brightening. His pain subsided, his anxiety eased and his energy surged.

“I feel like I have gotten my life back,” said Turner, 44, who is no longer on Social Security disability, has started a weekly podcast and is thinking of running for city council.

He now makes weekly batches of kratom tea and drinks two cups a day. He says he could probably get high from taking kratom if he took enough, but he adds: “That’s not what I’m looking for.”

Megan George of Lexington, N.C., was prescribed opioids for chronic pain until a doctor told her that she no longer needed them. Desperate and in withdrawal, she turned to heroin and quickly became addicted. She tried for years to quit by using medications for opioid addiction, but she never succeeded.

Last April, George, 31, tried kratom and says she has not used heroin since. In the past 10 months, she has held down her first job in years and is finally the parent she dreamed of being to her 2-year-old daughter.

“I’m going to work, I’m making money and coming home to her,” George said. “It’s great. It’s amazing.”

A portion of Danny Teichman's ashes reside inside a glass heart that his mother keeps in his old bedroom in her home in Bethlehem, Pa. (Jessica Kourkounis/For The Washington Post)

Nancy Knoebel sits beneath a childhood photograph of her children, Danny and Becky Teichman. (Jessica Kourkounis/For The Washington Post)
‘It was like a dagger’
A few years after being treated for drug problems, Knoebel’s son, Daniel Teichman, had a college degree, a good job and an apartment. An avid traveler and history buff, he loved to ski, hike and meditate.

But at a family reunion in 2014, he kept nodding off, finally telling his mother the devastating truth. He had become addicted to heroin.

“It was like a dagger being plunged into my heart,” said Knoebel, of Bethlehem, Pa.

After battling his way back to sobriety, Teichman moved to Portland, Ore., and he became active in the large recovery community there. He decided to pursue a graduate degree in computer science and went on suboxone, a treatment for opioid addiction, to reduce his risk of relapse.

Encouraged by his progress, he stopped taking suboxone in spring 2016 but was plagued by recurring withdrawal symptoms, including insomnia. His mother bought him a new mattress to help him sleep better. He told her he had found an “herbal remedy” that seemed to help.

That fall, his sister Rebecca found him dead in his bed in the apartment they shared. A toxicology examination of his blood found a high level of mitragynine, one of the active ingredients in kratom, as well as small amounts of other drugs, including an antidepressant and a mild stimulant. Karen Gunson, Oregon’s chief medical examiner, said that kratom caused Teichman’s death from respiratory depression.

Danny Teichman's death certificate states that he died from mitragynine toxicity in November 2016. The substance is one of the active ingredients in kratom. (Jessica Kourkounis/For The Washington Post)

Nancy Knoebel has a tattoo of the words “meditate and pray” in her son Danny Teichman's handwriting, taken from a to-do list he left behind. (Jessica Kourkounis/For The Washington Post)
“This is not a magic drug that has no side effects,” Gunson said. She blames kratom for three deaths in Oregon in the past two years.

When she suspects kratom is involved in a death, Gunson sends blood samples to NMS Labs, a forensic laboratory in Willow Grove, Pa. Barry Logan, a senior vice president at NMS, said kratom is increasingly showing up in samples and he has “no doubt that at high doses it is causing death.”

But he also said it can be difficult to pinpoint kratom’s role in a death, especially when combined with other drugs — which is frequently the case — because of a lack of testing on humans.

Some former users say kratom can be addictive. One 38-year-old Ohio man, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he does not want his addiction made public, said kratom was fun — it was like “having morphine and cocaine at the same time” — until he got addicted. Withdrawal, he said, was like “getting ripped apart by fishhooks.”

Buyers also can’t be sure of what they are getting. Some kratom products are much more powerful than others or are laced with hydrocodone — a moderately narcotic painkiller — and other substances.

Kratom is also relatively inexpensive, going for about $9 to $20 per ounce online, depending on the strain.

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The dichotomy of its potential to help and its potential to kill — not unlike well-known opioids — explains the embrace and fear that surrounds kratom.

Edward Boyer, an associate professor of emergency medicine at Harvard Medical School, who has studied kratom, echoes that sentiment and notes that two things stand out about the plant.

“The first is that kratom, I think, can be effective in treating opioid withdrawal,” he said. “The second thing is you can become addicted to kratom just as you could any other opioid. It’s not a magic bullet, it’s not a panacea.”


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  sad but enjoyable weekend
Posted by: masterthief - 02-11-2018, 10:23 AM - Forum: The Lounge - Replies (10)

Attended a funeral today for a close friend that I hadn't seen in a short while.  Just wanted to say god bless him on this forum as he died too young at 38.  Regardless of how he passed, the shitty thing is that the mother of his 7 year old daughter is so estranged from his side of his father's family that the mother refused to even allow his only daughter to attend the ceremony.  Not asking for sympathy.  Just wanted to share with anyone who may be going through some other trauma, like ladybug with her husband.  I know it's not exactly like her situation, but I wanted to say that trauma is never solo and we on this forum are here for each other in addition to honoring my friend along with ladybug's husband.  God bless her husband and my friend. Heart 

What makes me angry is that I know the law and I know the ex is going to try to take advantage of the situation.  Just wanted to share.

On a brighter note, this was one of his favorite songs.

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  L-lysine and Post Herpetic Neuralgia
Posted by: durango - 02-11-2018, 08:04 AM - Forum: Diet And Supplements - Replies (4)

dealing with PHN after back to back bouts of shingles and traditional medicine has failed me. are there any positive experiences out there with combating the PHN pain with a regimen of L-lysine and mega doses of vitamin B's and C for a fix from the inside. i've been doing so for a little over 4 weeks now and it does't seem to be working for me. even switched over to a paleo diet as it's gluten free but still allows me to enjoy eating as i'm a meat and cheese kinda guy. the only things that have occurred is that i've lost some weight and have more energy-which is great but not my goal. for the outside i'm using a 4% lidocaine creme, an essential oils mixture of Coffea Cruda, Hypericum Perforatum, Sesame Oil and Chamomile and an counter irritant cream of Menthol, Oil of Camphor and Eucalyptol Oil. these only give me minutes to an hour of relief so allow me to sleep for a bit. have had a series of Trigemital injections-nothing except to numb half my tongue. any suggestions?at this point i'll try anything within reason to get some relief!

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  Jeff Sessions Says People Should 'Tough It Out' and Take Aspirin Instead of Opioids
Posted by: OldBoy - 02-11-2018, 01:07 AM - Forum: Political Discussion - Replies (7)

I don't wish ill on others, but if Sessions were to suffer from chronic pain, he'd no doubt change his tune:

//www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/jeff-sessions-says-people-apos-193024259.html (replace "xxxx" with "https" and paste into your browser's address bar)

Quote:U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions recently shared his idea for solving the opioid crisis: aspirin, sleep and less marijuana.
Speaking at an event in Tampa on Tuesday to celebrate Ronald Regan’s birthday, Sessions said his goal for 2018 is to see a greater decline in the amount of opioids prescribed (he said last year there was a 7 percent decline).
“We think doctors are just prescribing too many. Sometimes you just need two Bufferin or something and go to bed,” Sessions said. “These pills become so addictive.”
Bufferin is an over-the-counter aspirin with antacid. Sessions said according to the Drug Enforcement Agency, a “huge percentage” of heroin addiction starts with opioid prescriptions.
“That may be an exaggerated number, they had it as high as 80 percent. We think a lot of this is starting with marijuana and other drugs too,” Sessions said. “But we’ll see what the facts show, but we need to reduce the prescription abuse and hopefully reduce the addiction that’s out there.”
Related: If You're Wondering Why I've Been in Pain for So Long
Quote:WATCH: Attorney General Jeff Sessions says his goal for 2018 is to see a further decline in prescriptions of opioids, and says, "we think a lot of this is starting with marijuana and other drugs." pic.twitter.com/paWSsEuNrl
— NBC News (@NBCNews) February 7, 2018
On Wednesday, Sessions doubled down on his previous remarks during a speech to Tampa law enforcement.
Related: Disability Does Not Always Mean Wheelchair
“I am operating on the assumption that this country prescribes too many opioids. People need to take some aspirin sometimes and tough it out a little bit,” Sessions said, then cited White House Chief of Staff John Kelly as someone who refused to take painkillers after a surgery on his hand. “You can get through these things.”
Sessions’ remarks were met with criticism from the chronic pain community, who explained that pain relief isn’t always as simple as “taking aspirin and going to bed.”
Quote:To: @USAGSessions
As I’m one of those chronic pain sufferers, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS), allow me to address the obviously ignorant AG, who has NO IDEA WHAT HE’S TALKING ABOUT!
Chronic pain sufferers are some of the TOUGHEST PEOPLE that you will ever encounter…
— W B Devitt III (@WB_Devitt_III) February 8, 2018
Related: Lady Gaga Cancels the End of Her Tour Due to 'Severe Pain'
Quote:Little Jeff Sessions had obviously never been in chronic pain. Let him live a week with what I endure day in and day out. He’ll be singing a different tune. He should legalize marijuana for people in chronic pain so they can wean off of opiods.
— Randy Ferrell (@rpdandy) February 8, 2018
Quote:I may not play a doctor on TV, but I am a real one, and I think
Jeff Sessions is the worst man in America to be giving medical advice or creating health care policy. https://t.co/bWlptaYxr9
— M Basel (@mitchellbasel) February 8, 2018
Sessions’ comments are at odds with data on opioid use and addiction. The opioid crisis claimed approximately 63,000 lives in 2016, according to data from the National Center for Health Statistics. However, synthetic opioids like fentanyl caused about a third of these deaths — which have increased 88 percent per year since 2013. Heroin caused about a fourth, and prescription opioids caused 23 percent, down from 26 percent in 2009.
Studies show the majority of people prescribed opioids do not become addicted (only between 1 and 12 percent develop an addiction). And a 2017 study found that 51.9 percent of people entering treatment for opioid use disorder started with prescription opioids, which is down from 84.7 percent in 2005. Among those, research has found that 75 percent of all opioid misuse starts with medication not prescribed to them.
Research has also suggested that marijuana is correlated with lower opioid use. Studies have found that states with legal marijuana dispensaries have fewer opioid deaths and that chronic pain patients who use marijuana use less opioids.

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  DEPRESSION, If I Can beat it, You can?
Posted by: fishfarmer - 02-10-2018, 10:53 PM - Forum: Anxiety Depression & Stress - Replies (10)

This may not apply to some who have severe depression, but through IOP and additional research, I show all or most of the symptoms and as of 3 weeks ago, I MADE myself get out of bed at a decent hour on the weekends and start doing productive things! Showering, Laundry, Cleaning, Running errands, etc. It used to be sleep as long as possible and eat breakfast and hit the couch and watch old westerns and nap half the day away. At least for me, a Man who lacks willpower, I have had several great weekends and got a lot done! I really feel much better, and have reduced alcohol intake on weekends as well which was likely a contributing factor. This is just a simple man's solution to decreasing depression, not a bit of help for some of you, just thought I would share if it could help even a few with moderate depression, Thanks-FF

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  For those of you with tramadol experience
Posted by: invisiblejungle - 02-10-2018, 08:40 PM - Forum: IOP General Discussion - Replies (5)

I'm not a frequent user of opiates. I mostly take codeine once in awhile (60-120 mg), and it's effective for pain relief and is somewhat sedating/relaxing. I had only ordered it from one of the main vendors.

I decided to order codeine from one of the other main vendors, which comes in capsules. Although these caps feel somewhat similar to the tablets I had previously ordered from the other vendor, they are extremely stimulating. Even just 60 mg prevents me from sleeping all night, even after taking larger-than-normal doses of benzos. And I feel like crap the next day.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on, and I'm wondering if these capsules are actually tramadol, which I've never taken before. Since tramadol is a norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitor, this could explain the extreme stimulation. For those of you who have tried both codeine and tramadol, could you describe the differences in their effects? Thank you.

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  Open war has now essentially broken out between Israel and Syria
Posted by: Linville - 02-10-2018, 04:13 PM - Forum: World News - Replies (2)

Not good news at all.

Notice the date.
This just happened today.
This is a super big deal.....Im gonna watch this close.
The middle East has been tightening and I frankly wondered how much longer before All Out War, happens.

An Israeli pilot was seriously injured while ejecting from crippled Israeli F-16 
 Feb 10, 2018 @ 9:39
One of the two pilots who ejected from an Israeli F-16 downed early Saturday was seriously injured. Both pilots parachuted to safety in northern Israel and were taken to hospital. The F-16 was hit during an IAF air strike against an Iranian facility in Palmyra, which early Saturday launched a UAV into Israeli air space. The drone was downed by an Israeli Apache and recovered intact.



Netanyahu leads urgent military conference in Tel Aviv 
 Feb 10, 2018 @ 10:22
Prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu called an urgent conference Saturday of defense and military chiefs, including Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gady Eisenkot. They are evaluating the next steps, while the Israeli air force conducts a wide-ranging air offensive against Syrian and Iranian military targets in Syria, especially in the Damascus region. Flights into Ben Gurion international airport were briefly interrupted and later resumed. Private and commercial flights over northern Israel have been halted until further notice.


Israel Carries Out "Large Scale Attack" On Syria After Israeli F-16 Shot Down

Open war has now essentially broken out between Israel and Syria. Israel confirms through its IDF spokesperson that it has carried out "a large scale attack" consisting of at least a dozen strikes on Syrian and Iranian military targets inside Syria.

What we previously described as Assad's strategic "waiting game" and reluctance to respond to repeat Israeli violations of Syrian airspace while launching unprovoked attacks appears to be over as Syrian air defense has shot down an Israeli F-16 fighter jet near the Golan border region in what is a major escalation in the conflict.  

Though details remain murky and are still developing, Israel has confirmed that its F-16 jet has crashed in Israeli territory after it was struck carrying out operations targeting locations in Syria. The IDF spokesman quickly stated in a tweetconfirming the shoot down that "Iran is responsible for this severe violation of Israeli sovereignty." 

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  Latest Email Rip Off Scam
Posted by: Linville - 02-10-2018, 01:40 AM - Forum: The Lounge - Replies (3)

I dont need any more money so if someone would like to lay claim to this I do not care.


I am posting this to warn anyone, 


This must be the latest version of the old Nigerian Email Scam.

This is for informational purposes only.

------- Original Message --------
 On January 19, 2018 5:40 AM,  <networkawarddept@gmail.com> wrote:

>Congratulation!!! Dear Email User,
> We wish to notify you that your email address was automatically generated and selected during Network Online Program GLOBAL AWARDS (NOPGA) yearly International Online Promotions draw held in Johannesburg.
> You have therefore been approved to claim a Star Prize of $3, 000.000.00 Three Million US Dollars in cash credited to Reference No: 5676/2018. The award money is payable through bank transfer or ATM Card.
> To claim your winning prize contact your appointed claim agent in our paying bank payment processing center South Africa for Immediate Release of your fund.
> Contact person: Mrs. Janet Petersen
> Telephone: +27-63-376-0336
> Fax number: +27-86-632-2886
> Email: nwglobalaward@mail2world.com
> Quote your details and Reference number
>1. Full Names:
>2. Mobile:
>3. Age:
>4. Sex:
>5. Country:
>6. Occupation:
>7. Reference No:
> Congratulations'' once again from all our Staff and thank you for being part of our Promotions Program
> Regards,
> Mr.Fred Morgan
> (Coordinator/ Online Publicity).
> Copyright©2018 Network Online Program Global Awards.

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  Spectrometer (or other) for identifying pills?
Posted by: Zobra - 02-09-2018, 05:01 PM - Forum: Pill Identification - Replies (5)

Has anyone tried a consumer grade spectrometer for identifying pill composition, or have any knowledge in that field?

The reason I ask is because I'm extremely dubious that the pills that were sent to me are what they claim to be.  I've questioned the vendor and, while quick to respond, he or she has made far too many weird and suspect statements.  They include things like:

- I believe the ___ to be the real thing
- I've tested these myself and I can assure you they are indeed ___
- It may take time for your body to adjust to different brands of the same medication
- The large size of the pill is what's causing your upset stomach.  (pill in question is notorious for opposite effect)

I know what the real thing feels like, having had a valid US prescription last year.  This is not it.

He'd be better off not saying anything at all because these are ridiculous statements coming from someone who has these available to purchase by the thousands.  I feel like if he had full transparency and confidence in the product he would have much better assurances than that.

So anyway, I'd like to take control of the situation and have them tested myself, or purchase a device than can do it.  There are a couple reasonably priced spectrometer devices that pair with your phone that claim to be able to identify pills.  Or do you think I'd be be better off with a chemical testing kit of some kind?  Item in question is per-cassette. Smile

Looking to you fine people for guidance.  Thank you.

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Thumbs Down BEWARE SCAMMER - ph106699@gmail.com scam
Posted by: FootballKing - 02-09-2018, 05:28 AM - Forum: Scam Pharmacy Forums - Replies (1)

100% scam out of Nigeria or something like that.  I sent like $70 bux in desperation mode but i knew it was a scam..  This email is all over the web offering all kinds of stuff.  Just google it..  It's ridiculous.  BEWARE!!!  100% SCAMMERS

BEWARE - ph106699@gmail.com

ph106699@gmail.com scam scammers

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